No one is arguing that. Your point?

Who is Levi? Who is euripides?

Sounds like barb already has a head start.

but bean doesnt the whole bubba fs thing leave a bit of a bad taste in your mouth? would you make up a lie to tell to try and make a point then hide behind a different personality to tell that lie?

by the way..ive never shied away from using my real name to express opinions either....only time i had to use other names was cuz i was banned.

how noble.....lol

Nah; but, then again, nothing leaves a bad taste in my mouth, as far as how people interact with either me or others on the internet. Seriously, for example, I've had people tell me to fuck off (lol) and have been called every name in the book and had a host of insults thrown in my direction, but it doesn't leave a bad taste in my mouth, nor am I inspired to hold grudges and duke it out with those people for the rest of my online life. My opinion of people who have done that may not be as high as it was previous to them doing that, but so what...lol.

Yes, Barb is a friend, but, look at you and me...no matter what has transpired between you and me, here we are, talking like two sane adults. :-)



No.

yep...and there was a time i was going to say fuck of everytime i saw a post of yours containing reference to me....lmao

can you believe that?

by the way i never called you the "c" word.

editted to add:

so you kinda evaded the question there bean.

ill rephrase it.

so if i did the bubbafs thing would you be dishing out the dishonesty card as i have for barb doing it?

would it be different if it were not your "friend"?

have you ever opposed her for doing things like that?

Guess you were banned for a reason, based on how a particular moderator wanted their board to run.

Why would you be so insistent on being a pain in the butt? Kinda childish, don't you think? LOL!

reason i refuse to let that type of thing die....is for a couple major reasons bean.

#1....i have been accused of being a liar by the biggest liar ive known in my opinion.

#2...ive gotten nothing but shit from barb from day one.

#3...she has never owned up to it to anybody it ever effected. or was pulled on maybe more accurate to say.

first time i was banned was because of i dont know what..maybe i was making too much sense. i can assure you the first time i was banned was certainly not for any type of combative behavior. if you'd care to go look its all there on that board bean. id recommend you do that if you really have a reason to think that im being less than truthfull on that.

second time i was banned was because it became apparent that i was going to be harrassed and givin shit everytime i brought up a valid point that i just figured i'd call them like i see em. third time and fourth i lurked and was an ass on purpose well just because i thought it was fun...maybe not the best approach but i will say it gave me a sense of oh..maybe a bit of revenge by messing with them. it worked too as i see in the old moderator pages.

Bean, he's telling the truth. I was posting there last year, and they were banning everyone who tried to give the other side of hunting.

Now, that wouldn't be half bad....except that they were posting themselves, as hunters, and making up some really ridiculous stories...some of them I believed.



Yes, laugh everyone...I actually thought that some hunter might have cut the antlers off of a deer while it was still alive, and his buddy went cold turkey (from hunting) that day.

Look what that says about how much faith you put in your (not yours Bean..but the AR movement) movement? It's sad, really.

Yep...can believe it without a doubt!

Hey, I jumped your shit with the sole intent of trying to make you look like an idiot, when it came to breeding dogs. You saw my posts for exactly what they were, and you told me to fuck off. Can't fault you for calling a spade a spade!



True...and I appreciate that.



No...but, I don't visit internet boards to see if I can "out" people on anything either. Honest? Dishonest? Ultimately, most all of us are bullshit artists extraordinnaire in some form or another....the only thing that may differ is the degree to which we feel compelled to bullshit.



No. It's not important to me how people choose to post messages on internet boards. What's REALLY important to me is if I were to find out that DH deceived me...so far, during almost 16 years of marriage he hasn't (knock on wood...lol). He and I shared vows, which makes our relationship extremely important to me...obviously. Thing is, if I were to find out today that he did assassin work on the side, I'm not at all sure what I'd do even then...lol. I'm of the opinion that both agape and romantic love is not simply black/white, but there are numerous gray areas...and, there's that little thing called forgiveness that rattles around in my brain an awful lot too.



No.

Here's what I don't understand though. If you know you're not a liar, if you know you're not welcome on a board, if you run across people who are not going to like you because, for example, you hunt...WHY would you even be bothered by what anyone says in the negative about you?

Then, when you get so PO'd you can hardly stand it, you go on the attack yourself, what are you really accomplishing?

Since I can't remember your first post on Qwerty, I don't know if it was defensive right off the bat or not; but, you obviously already had your mind made up that you weren't going to like her anyway because you already knew she didn't like hunters and was very opinionated in the area of the human-animal connection. See how that works? Two people who already have their minds made up...it's already a lost cause as far as ever coming to terms with much of anything, since there's a heck of a lot of passion involved in both their souls. :-)

did i say qwerty?...sorry i meant nhrc if i did say "my first post on qwerty".

actually my first posts on nhrc were not in any way even regarding barb. i had no idea who the hell she was. didnt know nay relationships between she and q or bubba or any of that. i was posting things as an opinion and got shit dumped on me from the beginning. so as far that goes....nope i was there puttin it out there with my thoughts on what was being discussed.

on qwerty...i was not on the offensive with my first post i baited offensively (not bad language i mean i was on the ofeensive).

why id be bothered is because there are lies and deciepts being told threatening my way of life (hunting fishing etc). so therefore i look at that as worth fighting for. i dont like that ..i think its bullshit. therefore go on the offensive.

oh yeah....about what can be accomplished?.....well its obvious if you are vindivtive as i am...lol

and i kind of think you are in a different way. i mean the whole thread starting at the other qwerty about how rude i am by telling you to fuck off when you now consider it relatively justified....lol

so dont act too innocent bean. you are akin to that same behavior also. if you really were not into "pot stirring" you'd have distanced yourself from that thread.....among other threads.

Amy, you didn't know any better at the time, nor did you realize that Barb was such a liar. How could we laugh at your past ignorance when we all know how much you've since educated yourself? I might laugh if you still believed that.

Well, let's see, you made a point of visiting an ANTI-hunting board, and you believed that, when you stated you were a HUNTER, you'd have leis thrown over your neck in warm welcome? Silly boy!

Okay, Jim...you didnt' really think you'd be allowed to hang around with free reign to say whatever you felt, did you?

You were essentially as welcome as an atheist on a tightly-run fundamentalist board...lol.



I'm thinking that a key phrase in your statement above is "I baited...".



Completely understand; but, what you perceive as lies may very well be perceived as solid truths to another. If you want to fight, fine, but fights that become nothing more than mudslinging don't do much for your cause...it can tend to contribute to some people stereotyping you, based on what they've already decided as far as hunters' mental attributes...rude, crude, uncivil, neanderthal, etc...lol.

Hey, I didn't say I think that all hunters have those mental attributes, but I know that plenty of people do...and, damned if I don't see hunters who go and live up to those perceptions...lol.

Lator Gator! Gotta run...time to feed the fur crew.

Bean wrote:

Barb's blatent and continued dishonesty shows a complete lack of civility on her part. Civility encompasses more than shallow nicey-nice bullshit and refraining from using certain words.

But when I eventually decide to post on Barb's new board, it will be with guns blazing...you can betchyurass.

So what do you think of how Barb lives up to the stereotypical perception of a liar?

Something like how you thought that Qwerty was a distinct person from Barb?

Oh, yeh, I definitely can be purposely vindictive, as in the case of my posts to you regarding dog breeding; but, I generally don't place my vindictiveness over any individual's head for all eternity.

Prior to my outbursts on that particular thread, we were getting along just fine. When you posted about breeding your dog, it made me *temporarily* angry for sure and I came with both barrels firing. I did it, you did your thing, then it was over. I had my say, and now whatever you do with that dog or any dog has nothing to do with whether I can get along with you.

Heh...if you actually think I'm trying to come across as some kind of innocent, then you're waaaay off; but, overall, yeh, I generally try to find a way to get along with most everyone, and I don't dislike anyone at all...it's just not in me to be so full of angst that it causes a major divide with my fellow human beings who post on these boards. What anyone thinks of me, well I have absolutely no control over that at all. (shrug)

'bout time for SD to come in and post something like, "Sure, Beanfart, kumbaya my ass." lol.

I respect, but don't agree with, your opinion.



I agree to a certain point; but, I also believe that it certainly doesn't hurt to at least try to encourage people to not be rude and/or crude to one another...and, that it does contribute to civility to encourage it.



Of that, I have no doubt, since showmanship is simply a natural part of your make-up that you can't and won't deny!

You don't view deliberate dishonesty as a lack of civility? I certainly tend to view a lie as an insult...but then, I also tend towards being honest for my part.

bean....you are coverin pretty hard. yep i admit i baited on qwerty. it was an offensive move. as for going to the nonhunting board. i thought hey...(naively of course) maybe i can put some truths down to what real hunters do as opposed to the poachers they discuss. i was lumped in as a poacher to them. the gloves came off after a couple attempts at civil debate.

ok as far as what some would construe as truths that i feel are lies....um the lies i speak of are the ones i outlined. bean you cant for 1 second think that barb thinks bubba fs comments she made were true.

Yeah, I really didn't. There were also a few other things that had me shocked over there, and now who knows if they were correct or not.

Thanks for not laughing, though.

Psst.. Amy.. shut up and go look at the pictures I posted!

Bite me! (where are they?)

Ok, like did you just tell me to shut up?

Yeah, so I'm slow...

Yeah.. I told you to shut up.. but I meant it in the most loving way possible!

Uh huh...

Deliberate dishonesty can indicate a lack of civility, but deliberate dishonesty doesn't always indicate a lack of civility.

In this case, the deception, though deliberate, was not done with any intention to harm another, so I can't view it as indicating a lack of civility.

You may not live a subjective life, but I do.



No doubt I'm missing something, but I fail to see how Barb's deception could equate into insult. If anything, I suppose the ultimate verdict is in the eye of each individual. I can understand Barb's desire to use aliases, not to initially publicly announce that Qwerty was her board, and to pose as a hunter who no longer hunts...therein lies the difference in how I perceive her actions...I can understand the whys and accept them, whereas others may want to hold her to the fire for not living up to whatever state of perfection they may think they've attained.

Yes it was meant to hurt others, Bean. She may not have had personal targets, but she targeted the hunting community, and anyone who was willing to hold her as a trustworthy and truthful person.

Just think of the people who visited that board and saw how she was displaying hunters. Now, some of them probably never returned (maybe they were browsing) and are now running around wth those stories to tell - obvious made-up lies to hurt hunting. My god, if the anti-hunting argument is so weak that crap has to be made up in order to convince people of her goal, then what the heck is the use?

It's dishonest, deceiving, and harmful to anyone who took it away with them.

Amy, what did Barb lie to you about?

If Barb believes that furtrapping is a cruel activity and you no longer do, that doesn't make her a liar...it just means that you now differ in your opinions.

What shocking things?

Okay, I'm getting confused again...but, what's new with that? lol.

On which board did she pose as a hunter telling tales? A hunting or non-hunting board?

Uh, she posted as unethical hunters and tried to paint them as being the norm.

She lied to me and to everyone else when she told those hashed (Is it hashed or hatched?) stories.

The NHRC board. Did you not read the threads when Jim posted them at Qwerty a few weeks ago? They are archived here at Frankies in the "Topics from other boards" section.

EDITED* It's actually in the "Topics to Remember" section of the board.

Please give an example of deliberate deception being considered as courteous, and explain why it would be considered so.

Note that we refer to discussion and debate involving information exchange. Such exchange requires a good faith assumption that communication will be honest. A dishonest party breaks that assumption of faith...trivializes that which an honest person knows to be necessary in CIVIL discourse.



Then since you have attained the state of perfect understanding of the motive behind Barb's actions, perhaps you can clear something up which she has so far failed to even address except by dishonest denial.

What was her motive for gathering personal information about me and disseminating it to radical activists?

Better yet, tell us something that Barb HASN'T lied about. Her lies run the gamut from the trivial fib, to the subtle equivocation, and thence to the long maintained deception.

The only consistency is that she never wavers in her staunch intent to be dishonest.

You claim her as a friend, and revel in your blind loyalty. Tell me...how do you distinguish when to trust her from when to not?

.

Yes, I did, but I was under the impression that NHRC is a non-hunting board. Am I mistaken, and is it a hunting board? I don't know, since I'm wasn't familiar with it.

Here's the thing though. If it's a non-hunting board, and Barb posted as a hunter who no longer hunts, how could it harm people who already have their minds made up that they don't like hunting?

If it's a hunting board, and Barb posted as a hunter who no longer hunts, her story would either be taken as truth, in which case, other hunters would probably post any number of different replies, ranging from somewhat of an understanding to total disbelief, or it would be seen as a complete fabrication; but, again, no one is harmed by the story itself.

If any individual, whether they be a supporter or a non-supporter of hunting, changes their mind one way or another, based on one lone story about a hunter who no longer hunts, well they weren't all that hunky dory about their support to begin with. It's not as if millions of people saw Barb's hunter story. Even if a few people took the story away from the board and related the story to someone in their "real" life, again, it's not as if earthshattering epiphanies are going to occur all over the place...lolol.

Egad, there's so much seriousness all the way around, I'm of a mind to go join an abbey and contemplate my naval and try to figure out the meaning of life for the rest of my days...lololol.

Seriously, what Barb did is not going to change the course of history, so I have no concerns about it whatsoever. Guess, I just don't see what all the drama is about, especially since I have a feeling that meateating, hunting, and all the other stuff that involves animals is going to be around for a real long time.

Further..."...let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that jazz. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes and all that jazz.

Or...continue a never-ending, non-winnable "war" that is based on nothing more than emotions the whole way around. (shrug)

That's just it...she silenced the other hunters that were trying to explain how unethical her alter ego was, as a hunter, by banning them and removing their posts.

She wanted to portray hunters a certain way, so she created them and kept all the others out. Pitiful.

So generally, your excuse for her lying is that she didn't have the opportunity to lie to a great many people.

Well that makes alot of sense.

oh for christs sake bean. listen to yourself. im all mean and shit for calling barb a lying bitch. but its ok for her to be a lying bitch according to you. what harm does it do to alienate others that shared that board with her who were "on her side"? she did that too. you know a couple of them. there are others you dont. then again stay ignorant about that...cuz barb would never be mean to you..lol

But she WOULD lie to her.

But Bean doesn't care, because what Barb says doesn't matter. That's the sort of friendship they have.

Hopefully there aren't any admin threads going on now over there about this conversation. You never know what might show up in 12 months. (Yeah...I'm talking to you Jim. )

*Edit... Speaking of the Twisted Sisters board

Yeah, that's what the cockfighters said. And what some of the trappers are saying.

But always the precedent leans to accepting the generalized value of an animal as equivalent to that of a human.

Bean might claim to not be an ARF, but when things get hot she can haul ass with the best of them.

I just got out of an emotionally abusive relationship. I can say firsthand that Barb is like the abuser and Bean is the abused who won't leave as if Barb has a spell on her or something ( thats how I felt this man was doing). So what will it take for Bean to wake up and leave Barb's side?

The way Bean is acting in this thread,you would think she is sucking on the Barb Tit and won't be weaned.


And what is so bad about Barb spewing bullshit about hunters? Whats bad is that similar bullshit has lead to trapping bans, some bans on certain types of hunting,ect.


I used to know some people who I thought were cool and all that,but they started becoming more assholes and being shitty,but I still wanted to cling to them, but then I just realized one day- why?

Why hang out with shitty people, wether they are using you,abusing you, or are pathological liars who have to pretend to be other people?

And now that all of this is out about Barb, I really do think that was her stalking me to that vegan board and posting my yahoo photos address to it. Its too coinidental that whoever it was registered to it right after the link was put here by Tim4Trout,and they then posted right under me at a trapping discussion. We all know the g-force lurks here incessantly despite them claiming they don't come to this board. Maybe Grace and g-mom actually didn't,but Barb and her bevy of trolls sure did/do. In other words, Barb, herself, and her other self. And we know how much Barb hates trappers.

And I love how Barb's persona "Q" tried to pretend to not be Barb at first,even insinuating she might be male in one post.

I wonder if she knew that "brushwolf" was me?