It seems Mr. Nugent has some difficulty following some pretty basic hunting laws and regulations:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/18/t...r_n_686179.html

They don't call him the motorcity madman for nothing.

I think he is a douche

I hope next time he's out hunting he gets an antler sandwich between his saggy balls. Better yet I hope he shoots his own dick off and it flies into his mouth and chokes him to death, although it's probably too small to choke him unless his saggy balls go flying with it. Worthless fucking bastard.

I don't think he did anything wrong. Deer are vermin.

When they start making glue traps for deer, we'll revisit that. In the meantime, he's a dishonest, lazy cocksucker with a rifle who calls himself a hunter.

Law can be so arbitrary. In other places, baiting deer is legal. And you can kill any age of the bastards. Far as I'm concerned, he's a hunter. It's simply a noun...not an honorific.

They're not an endangered species!?!?!?!

I don't think he did anything WRONG ( illegal and wrong do not equate with me always) I just think he is a self absorbed egomaniacal prick.
As far as the deer baiting, you would think the humaniacs would approve of it since it makes for better cleaner shots. And since hunting is legal it only makes it more efficient.

That's probably true. He makes a big deal out of never having used alcohol or other drugs like he's some sort of heroic moral example and the rest of the world is nothing but shitbags.



But they don't approve of it, and that shows the stuff about baiting, canned hunts etc are nothing but red herrings.

Steve


You would think, but why would ARA's approve something they abhor just because it's [maybe] a cleaner shot? The deer still gets dead however you shoot it and they don't want deer dead. I personally think baiting an animal to kill it is mean and underhanded and wussy-assed. Frankly I'm surprised that someone like Nugent must resort to it. Like there aren't thousands of deer available to shoot w/o having to bait one (probably has done it 100 times too). And he also shot one too young. I hate him.

Why? It's just a faster way of getting one....the end result is the same.

I have had interaction with him on his website. he is a complete asshole IMO. As far as his no drugs or booze ever.. yeah right. Anyway grace. Hunting is 100% legal, and that is not gonna change in our life time. So why would the humaniacs not condone a method that at least makes it more efficient and less traumatic for the animal? I mean if I can get a deer within 10 yards compared to 30 yards, the average bow hunter is gonna make a MUCH better cleaner more efficient shot? When I deer hunt I hunt along well used trails or feeding areas. Last time I put out apples ( bastards ate em all while I was gone lol) If I hunt over an apple tree I am legal.. if I set up by the same apple tree but I throw out store bought apples I am ILLEGAL. Makes no sense to me. BTW feeding em is legal here.

Maybe it has something to do with shooting an animal while it's enjoying the one of the few pleasures it gets from trying to survive every day of its life. And it most definitely has something to do with calling such a set up 'hunting'. It certainly doesn't abide with the definition of same. And I've always thought people who bait animals to shoot them and call it hunting lazy, unethical schlaggs taking an easy way out. No different that shooting a deer in a coral while its grazing.

complete and total bullshit grace. we have had this discussion before and there is NO method of hunting you find acceptable. You don't like treestand hunting cause it is a surprise attack you don't like runnin em with dogs you don't like spot and stalk you don't like ANYTHING that results in a hunter getting an animal.

"Baiting" is simply another method of hunting.

I've always thought that people who have an internal combustion engine in or on a sailboat are lazy, unethical schlaggs taking an easy way out. I have to admit I really haven't considered what should be done with them though.

You guys would love this guy's argument. In a way it makes sense. I will read it again & come back later. (RF needs to start another thread on water sports. )

http://californiahuntingtoday.com/hogblog/...logical-debate/

PS - the comments which follow above commentary are interesting too.

But they aren't really anything you haven't heard here before.

No, the analogy is quite appropriate and you know it is.

No, I don't. And I don't see what it has to do with unethical hunting. Engines come in handy, not to get anywhere faster, but to get anywhere period. When we were becalmed for 10 days, we turned on the engine or we'd still be trying to get to the Canaries. The engine turns a tranquil, enjoyable experience into one that's incredibly noisy. It vibrates, smells, all those things power boat guys love. Go figure. Speaking of lazy, a sailboat takes much more skill, knowledge and experience than driving a power driven tub through the sink. Engines help get through the doldrums before you starve to death, or assist through narly narrow breakers. reefs or crowded anchorages. Using them doesn't have anything to do with ethics or laziness. Don't think so.

Actually, your entire post shows that they do. An ethical sailor will sail....not rely on engines to save him effort or time, or make up for his lack of skill.

RF

Bwahahaha. Ethical sailor. LOL. No such thing.



RF


Moot.

Really hard to believe there are such stupid ignoramus dumb asses walking around those grocery aisles.

Code of Ethics
Bluewater Sailing

I see nothing about engine use. However, ethical hunting does certainly mention BAITING as unethical. hrmph.



As a Bluewater Sailing Employee / American Sailing Association certified instructor, I agree I will:

* Do everything possible to achieve excellence in my professional conduct and deliver the highest quality instruction.
* Show respect for students in language and actions, and through the exercise of fundamental human courtesy and a respect for diversity of all people.
* Treat my employers and students with the same honesty I expect for myself. The same honesty will extend to my handling of sailing qualifications, certifications, assessment of students' abilities, and any circumstances that might exhibit potential for conflicts of interest.
* Treat people fairly without regard to race, sex, religion, age, disability, or national origin.
* Set aside conflicts between me and students or others, within the context of carrying out my professional responsibilities.
* Honor property rights, copyrights, patents, and trade secrets.
* Respect privacy, confidentiality and personal exchange of information.
* Strive for excellence in the sailing profession by maintaining and enhancing my own knowledge and skills.
* Strive to maintain continuous and positive communication between students, instructors, schools, members, affiliates, Bluewater Sailing and the American Sailing Association.
* Know and obey laws, statutes and regulations pertaining to my professional work. I will accept full responsibility and consequences for any violation.
* Accept and provide professional review and criticism. This includes review from students, schools, peers, and other individuals or groups involved.
* Honor contracts, agreements, and assigned responsibilities.
* Improve public understanding of sailing's benefits.
* Support and help those individuals who are subordinate so that they can achieve a high level of success.
* Use the association's materials and resources improper and authorized manners.
* Present and groom myself in a manner that is appropriate for the high level of influence and responsibility that accompany my role as a sailing instructor.

SAFETY

* Use all resources available to provide a safe learning environment for all students.
* Assume responsibility for the safety of students and others who have been put in my care.
* Conduct myself in a professional, sober (avoiding all intoxicating substances) and safe manner while carrying out all responsibilities associated with sailing instruction.

COMPLIANCE WITH THE CODE

As an Bluewater Sailing Employee / American Sailing Association instructor in good standing, I consent to uphold and promote the principles of this Code. I recognize that Bluewater / ASA certified instructors that have gone before me established this code of conduct and others that follow will follow not only its tenets, but also the example set by me and others.

ETHICS ATTITUDE

* A Bluewater Employee will not lie, cheat, or steal, nor will they mislead or deceive anyone.
* Every Bluewater Employee is presumed to be honorable at all times and to possess moral integrity in the fullest sense and will be treated accordingly, unless he or she proves otherwise by their words or actions.
* A Bluewater Employee member should neither permit nor accept anything which is not just, right and true.
* He or she should do the right thing because it is right, not because of fear of punishment.



http://www.bluewatersailing.com/bwsethics.php

First you say there are no ethical sailors, then you post some sailing ethics.



Which "ethical hunting"? Certainly not the ethical hunting that considers baiting to be ethical.

Think it could be that baiting is ethical in some cases and not in others?

Grace you are going to have a problem with any way a hunter kills a deer .

bingo!!! I believe grace has been asked in the past what type of deer hunting she would consider ethical and I do not believe there was any?

not hard to believe , we have people here who think that baiting a hook is pefectly OK but baiting a deer is unethical.

RF

It's not sailing ethics.


RF



If what Nugent did was ethical, why'd they fine him? Why do many hunters disagree with baiting animals and shooting too young animals at that? Maybe you should consider many hunters are pissed at Nugent for shooting an animal that later on could have been shot by them ethically w/o the aid of Here Deer, when he was a ripe older age. Now some other ethical hunter loses his chance cause of Nugent's blatant disregard, lack of morals and obligation.

Yeah I'm back to hating hunting. Bastards. All of you.

I hate hunting now. I think what must have happened is I started hanging around you guys too much and my evil twin beckoned me towards the dark side. She was hypnotized by that claw-like finger motioning the way.. heeeere little girl...come we have fresh baked cookies and fruit punch....but I put down that dip cup and hate snickerdoodles anyway. I ran the other direction as fast and far as I could.

Fishing too?

Netting poor innocent lil shrimp too?

Lobster hunting too!?!?!?!

nugent broke the law which has nothing to do with ethics in reality.

Sure ethics are a personal choice; however, there are standards set when it comes to certain activities, where the moraless minority gets squelched, vis a vis the law.

Nugent is still a dirty dick sucker. Too bad you couldn't tell him for me.

Oh I get it. Such as the middle eastern women who get sentenced to stoning for engaging in premarital sex.

Sometimes it's a sort of elitism.

yep.. It's like the shotgun hunter trashing the rifle hunter while the crossbow hunter is trashing the shotgun hunter while the compound bow shooter is trashing the crossbow guy while the trad archer is trashing the compound shooter.....on and on and on.. Each one believes HIS way is the only way, and each ( IMO) is trying to elevate HIS way by tearing at the others.

If the dept of wildlife issues 5000 deer tags in a given area then what difference does it REALLY make how the 5000 deer get killed? Do you really think the deer give a shit? I mean seriously do you think the deer that Nugent shot thought...why that cock sucker tricked me! NOPE he was alive then dead....Do you think the deer in a high fence operation are thinking.. WELL HELL I WOULD GET AWAY BUT THERE IS A FENCE A MILE THAT WAY THAT MIGHT STOP ME IF I WAS ABLE TO EVEN GET TO IT.. again nope..alive then dead. I am not sure what the proper term is grace but you are arguing disengenuously when you infer that there IS a method you would approve of but THIS one sucks.

I hadn't considered this and would wager this is why it's illegal (aside from being unsportsmanlike?)


Deer bait piles tend to concentrate the deer and deer are browsers. With bait piles they will browse and leave their germs on the remaining food. On the ground and damp, perfect conditions to grow deer disease. Baiting is a practice that is not natural, not healthy and should be outlawed everywhere due to real world threats like CWD.

.................

Deer are browsers. They don't feed at trough's like cows. Think more in terms of goats. They take a nip here and a bite there. When deer feed at bait piles, pieces of food get mouthed and left behind. Other deer can pick these pieces of food up and eat them. If the first deer was diseased, the disease is passed on. By concentrating deer in one area with bait, diseases can spread through the herd quickly, having a devastating and long lasting effect on local Deer herds.

Baiting Deer - The Ugly

If there is one thing that turns me off about baiting, it's that most h unters stop doing it as soon as deer season is over. Why is that a problem? Because deer season ends just as winter is ramping up. If deer are used to supplementing their browse habits by stopping by a bait pile or corn feeder, then all of a sudden it's gone, it can have devastating effects on the herd during the winter. Especially the further north you are.

first off it is not unsportsmanlike......secondly I believe that theory has been disproven as far as CWD is concerned. And thirdly IF that theory IS true, how is concentrating the deer at a bait pile any different than concentrating them under an oak tree or an apple tree? As for cutting off the feed, if the method is so devestatingly effective as to render it unsportsmanlike, wouldn't it HELP the deer HERD by severely reducing their numbers to the point that the natural food supply would be more than sufficient?

Steve

I don't believe it's a theory. Sounds plausible to me. If it's been disproven, I'm sure Google must have heard about it.


"If early estimates are any proof, it appears the controversial and much-dreaded bait ban has actually had little or no impact on the success of the firearm deer hunting season. The state Department of Natural Resources banned all deer baiting in the Lower Peninsula this year to prevent the spread of Chronic Wasting Disease, after a deer infected with CWD was discovered at a Kent County game ranch. The always-fatal infection spreads through saliva and other fluids and can contaminate soil for years. Biologists believe wild deer, elk and moose feeding in close proximity can greatly increase the likelihood of spreading the infection.

*Many hunters had worried the ban would hinder their ability to get deer within shooting range. The resulting change in feeding patterns would also force many to abandon permanent blinds and tree stands for a more mobile approach. Some protested the DNR had overreacted and at least one lawsuit was filed challenging the ban."

http://www.mlive.com/outdoors/index.ssf/20...baitban_ar.html


Back to something you said earlier...So, it's more about getting the deer within shooting range vs. a humane/clean shot. After all if the deer was not within shooting range, you couldn't goddamn shoot it now could you?


Steve

Unless you planted that tree for the purpose of baiting deer, your argument is moot. Unless you propose to cut down every damn tree and bush in North America to prevent deer from congregating in one spot to eat or graze? And in direct answer to your question, why exacerbate the situation in the spread of disease by creating additional [man made] areas for deer to graze/feed? I know! So you can get a good clean shot and bag a deer you might otherwise not have even SEEN.


Steve

No.

Like I said I THINK It has been disporoven....but again even if it is true hiow is deer gathering around a pile of corn different than deer gathering around an acorn pile? Unless your point of contention is the huiman involvement.



Shooting range IS a humane clean shot grace...60 yards is within my shooting range but 10-20 is better.



grace you just made my argument for me. If deer are ALREADY gathering together in feed areas how in the hell are the few bait piles making a difference? It is simply more AR bullshit. Unless YOU plan to cut down every oak tree and apple tree and fence off every corn and bean field, then how is eliminating a few bait piles making much if any difference.....except it makes YOU and other FEEL better about the poor deer.




why not?

Steve


No I didn't.
"A few"? I've already explained it. Creating yet MORE gathering places only exacerbates the situation. I've already explained that.


Vermont game wardens are calling it one of the largest cases of its kind. They raided a camp in Moretown and charged 8 men and one juvenile with a host of hunting violations. Wildlife officials are worried about more than unsportsmanlike behavior. The hunting bows in the back of game warden Jason Batchelder's truck will not be used again this season. They're evidence in a deer baiting case.

"It's very discouraging," said Warden Jason Batchelder. Wardens raided 11 deer stands in Moretown Sunday and charged eight men and one underage hunter with putting out food and salt. Baiting deer has been illegal in Vermont for four years. Officials say private landowners still do it, though, because many grew up baiting.

"I don't have anything statistically, but it seems this year the baiting is rampant. I don't understand why: if it's the economy, the lower number of game wardens, but the baiting is up five-fold over last year," said Batchelder

The Fish & Wildlife Department says feeding deer non-native foods could introduce diseases that could harm the health of the herd. Also, baiting encourages the animals to huddle together more closely than they normally would, and that risks spreading sickness.

"Movement of any infectious agent from animal to animal is made easier," said Fish & Wildlife Commissioner Wayne LaRoche. He's most worried about chronic wasting disease, a condition that destroys an animal's central nervous system. It has not been found in Vermont, and steps like preventing baiting could help keep CWD out. "It's a major problem and could have a devastating impact on deer hunting in the state of Vermont and the economy," said LaRoche.


Apparently you just don't believe it nor give a shit. It's an easy, lazy, schlaggy way to shoot a deer that otherwise you wouldn't get a shot at. Very unsportsmanlike.



Steve

Yeah, your typical response when you disagree with something. There are no AR proponents in the world of hunting.

Once again grace your words ring hollow because there is NO hunting method that you deem to be "sportsman like". You are the same as the hunters who trash baiting. You have no reason except you don't like it. The Ar influence in hunting are the idiots trying to appease the retarded Ar types.

Nothing arbitrary about this law. Game warden assholes need job security.