http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/249401/

Initiative would ban 'fenced hunting' in ND

BISMARCK, N.D. - Supporters of a ban on so-called "fenced hunting" in North Dakota are trying again to put the issue to a statewide vote.
The ballot measure would outlaw fenced game preserves where visitors pay for the right to shoot deer, elk and other big-game animals.
Roger Kaseman of Bismarck is chairman of the initiative campaign. He says fenced hunting is unethical and will undermine support for legitimate hunting. Opponents of the proposal say it will violate private property rights.
Kaseman circulated an identical measure last year, but technical problems with some of the petitions kept the issue off the ballot.
The measure needs at least 12,844 signatures by Aug. 4, 2010, to qualify for the next general election.

Where do I sign?

Its their choice if they want to do it on their property. I have a problem with these nose in the air hunters who think their way is "the" way. A pox on this Roger Kaseman and others who spit on other people's rights.

You're right. He's a "If you ain't doing it like me you're doing it wrong" dickhead. Pure and simple. I read a post of his on a forum where he claims that the high fence operations are "raping his sport". Well if that's so, then how does he disagree with the anti-hunters who claim hunters in general are "raping the earth" and shit like that?

I can't personally understand the interest in such hunting: it seems to be missing some of the most important elements I enjoy in hunting.

But.....this is on private property.....

This may be no more hunting then shooting a penned cow on a farm....

But you CAN legally shoot a penned cow on a farm, Yes?

Is there really that much difference?

What business is it of yours? The fenced hunting operations don't hurt you or anybody else.

Is there any difference other than the species in question?

Just because someone is a hunter doesn't mean he can't also be a fascist dickhead who wants everybody to do things his way even if they aren't hurting anybody doing it their own way. Sheesh....it's like if I didn't like red cars and got all irate because my neighbor owned a red car....and then went around demanding that red cars be banned.

I hear ya.

There must be a market for this sorta thing.
So I figure; let those who don't care for it, to not take part.
Let those that wish to, do so.

Basically; let 'market forces' decide it's fate. Seems the fairest way to me.

I think that's what scares some of the people who are against it. They're afraid that most hunting will become that way and they'll lose their "free" hunting.

Another thing I just thought of is that no matter where you hunt, you still have boundries. I know people who regularly hunt little 20 acre plots. It ain't like they're free trappers and buffler hunters ranging the breadth of the Rockies. Some of those fenced operations are larger by far.

Some landowners invite hunters to kill hogs on their property because they're so destructive. Others for ground squirrels so their cattle don't break their legs stepping in a hole. Is that not "real" hunting?

There was one hunter who made the mistake of criticizing those evil black rifles. He lost his job because of it. The second amendment isn't about hunting. Roger Kaseman deserves to be Zumbo'd for being an arrogant a$$.

And what's the difference between paying for access to hunt elk on someone's cattle ranch....and paying for access to hunt elk on someone's elk ranch? Besides the obvious...likely more elk. But what's wrong with that? Did the mountain men turn down fat cow because buffalo were plentiful? Do modern day hunters typically try to hunt where game is most rare? After all, wouldn't that be an even more fair chase?

If they eliminated the word hunting from the equation and called it indolent pricks shooting penned up animals hunters wouldn't be able to associate it with their sport and get so defensive.

But it's ok for penned hens and cows to suffer and die for your plate..?

Yeah, it's ok. Now, back on topic, although for the record I don't eat cows knucklehead.

It's not fucking hunting. Yes, we all have boundaries. It's called planet Earth.

Its not how you want people to hunt.

No, many people just don't see it as hunting. I supposed internet 'hunting' is also hunting in your book.

What's the big deal? If I had a cow or pig etc that I was gonna kill, and some idiot wanted to pay me to let him shoot it, I'd be like "fuckin eh right you can". Hell I'd even tie it up good and tight so it was easier for him. On the other hand, most of these places are huge. The fencing is irrelevant to the hunt as far as restricting the game.

Nope, but its ok by me if someone else wants to call it that and pay to do it.

It's funny grace, we have had this discussion before and I don't recall ANY form of hunting that you found acceptable. Yet you approach THIS as if you oppose it solely on it being called hunting.....How BIG would an enclosure have to be before you would accept this form of hunting?

Internet hunting? LOL The point is you want something banned because *you* don't like it. That kind of selfish disregard for other people's property and rights is what I take issue with.

There’s little left to add that hasn’t already been brought up. However, I find it the height of entertainment that Grace commissions people to chase her free range chickens around a barnyard and dispatch them for her table, but is so vehemently opposed to someone paying to do what is essentially the identical act – namely, chase and kill an animal within an enclosure.

It’s not real hunting? Perhaps, perhaps not – I’m not going to make any categorical dismissals. But I don’t see why that would really matter. I’m not terribly interested in doing it myself, but it would be the height of presumption – not to mention hypocrisy – to object to someone else doing it.

Raising and slaughtering animals for the food industry is not, and cannot be compared with hunting. Hunting is a sport. Outdoor entertainment shared by generations and generations of families. It's not a world-wide industry employed to feed the masses of the world. Those "hunters" who would pay to shoot an animal in a pen and call it hunting have muddied the reputation of the sport, as well as those who operate these ranches. Can anyone answer directly, why is it so controversial as opposed to regular hunting?

rpedog


Is it only laws which pertain to animal use that you take issue with? Or do people laws bother you too? Speed limits, hunting regulations, murder, rape, pillage and the like? Are you of the anarchist philosophy?

This IS a "people law" not an "animal use" law.



All the hunters I know eat what they kill and nothing is wasted. Undoubtedly not all are like that but thats not something that can be forced either.

In the end there is no difference between you and one of these people you apparently despise. You're just removed from the process as someone else said and let others do the dirty work.

Sure it can grace, IF you are talking about high fenced hunting. It is ALMOST exactly the same thing. In one the farmer pays someone to kill his property, in the other the farmer gets payed to let someone kill his property.




And you oppose that also , so why the attempt at high moral ground here?


I beg to differ, it IS a world wide industry and hunters donate tons and tons of food a year to feed the worlds hungry.


Again, why do you care? You despise ALL hunting except that which benefits YOU. So again why are you attempting to stand on moral high ground over this when you despise ALL of it?


Because it is an easy target for the AR crowd and they get help from people like you and pops. It is exactly the same as pops having one type of gun yet clamoring for a ban on a DIFFERENT type. It is easy to get people like you to support a ban on killing an animal in a fence while you eat chicken killed inside a fence. Everyone wants to be morally superior when none are.

you are kidding right? are you seriously gonna start this comparative bullshit again? Explain to me EXACTLY How high fence hunting interferes with your life in any way? ALL of the things you have listed either infringe upon the rights of others or jeaopardize the safety of others. You throw this bullshit out every so often and it is ridiculous.

But you eat animals all the same? Penned, netted and killed...

I can't argue with y'all tonight. I gotta catch me a rat.

PS - XBlob:

Sure. But can you address what I said about someone who is limited to hunting a 20 acre woodlot? Can you explain how he is ethically superior to someone who hunts a 500 acre elk farm?

So you suddenly have no problem with hunting for entertainment?

It didn't come on suddenly. It was drilled into me for years and years. Also I think some sublimal messages were inserted in obscure posts. Yes, I've accepted hunting as entertainment (enjoyment) for lack of better word cause it sure ain't for survival. But it's HUNTING. Fair chase. The animal has a better chance to ellude. I will never get canned hunting. I guess they had to come up with something for suck ass over the hill rich fuckers who have no time or skill to bag an animal the way it's been done for hundreds of years.

Fair chase, eh?

So how does ambushing a deer amount to a chase at all?

He or she isn't contained in a fence. Fair chase shouldn't be taken literally like you're running through the woods in hot pursuit. I understand hunting methods.

Many of these fenced hunting animals are specifically bred just to be shot for cash exchanged. It's just wrong.

But many of those chickens are specifically bred just to be killed for cash exchanged. Just sayin'...

If you're opposed to market transactions, then argue that.

Wait...what the hell was that code word or whatever I was supposed to say?

How's the weather? I'd totally forgotten about that.

Saved by Hell's Kitchen. Later.

Weather is here. Wish you were beautiful.

One for the "What are you listening to" thread.

There. Fixed that for ya.

That's damn good.

Eating chicken and shrimp isn't for survival, grace and you enjoy it don't you?

As much as you enjoy those aborted chickens you eat.