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Grace
Reindeer and caribou numbers worldwide have plunged nearly 60 percent in the last three decades due to serial killer wolves.


kidding Donnie.

Reindeer and caribou numbers worldwide have plunged nearly 60 percent in the last three decades due to climate change and habitat disturbance caused by humans, a new study finds. Global warming and industrial development are driving the dramatic decline, said Liv Vors, a Ph.D. student at the University of Alberta who did the study with university biologist Mark Boyce.

"Their future is dubious if climate change and habitat disturbance continue at their current pace," Vors told LiveScience. "We do not know how quickly they can adapt to this changing world."

Reindeer and caribou are two names for the same species. "Generally speaking, caribou are the North American version and reindeer are European," Vors explained. Exact numbers for the creatures are not known, because not enough study has been done. But for those populations that have been studies, the average decline in numbers is 57 percent.

The results come from the first-ever comprehensive census analysis of this species, the researchers said. The findings are detailed in the Global Change Biology Journal. The decline raises serious concerns not only for the animals, but also for people living in northern latitudes who depend on the animals for their livelihood, the scientists say.

What's causing the decline, according to the study:

Earlier spring green-ups now occur before migrating herds arrive north. This deprives mothers and calves of quality feeding. Warmer summers cause more intense insect activity, harassing animals and affecting their feeding.
The impact of more freezing rain, in place of snow, has negatively impacted lichens that animals feed on during the colder months.

Another scientist warned of the fragility of the caribou and reindeer range last year:

"The caribou is central to the normal function of northern ecosystems," said Justina Ray, executive director of Wildlife Conservation Society-Canada. "With their huge range requirements and need for intact landscapes, these animals are serving as the litmus test for whether we will succeed in taking care of their needs in an area that is under intensifying pressure."


Caribou are vulnerable to a number of threats, including deforestation, natural resource extraction and accompanying road networks, and climate change, Ray and a colleague said last year. In North America, caribou have lost about one-third of their southern range, they said.


Vors said countries where the beasts live need to exercise their authority to protect them.


"This issue is extremely urgent," Vors said. "We have sufficient information about caribou habitat requirements to begin immediately a program of protection and recovery of critical habitat for woodland caribou. Clearly, climate change requires attention as well and the sooner we begin to reduce carbon emissions the more likely we will be able to protect some of the remaining caribou and reindeer herds."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/200906...pulationsplunge

iowanic
Certainly sounds grim.

The much bally-hooed 'wildlife' corridors may have some use here.

RF
If "exact numbers for the creatures are not known", then how is it he can claim to have a "comprehensive census analysis of this species"?

And if he "do(es) not know how quickly they can adapt to this changing world", how can he also claim to know "their future is dubious"?

Oh...I see. "Because not enough study has been done."

Translation: Another grant, pretty please.
DonnieMacLeod
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 13 2009, 08:27 AM) *
If "exact numbers for the creatures are not known", then how is it he can claim to have a "comprehensive census analysis of this species"?

And if he "do(es) not know how quickly they can adapt to this changing world", how can he also claim to know "their future is dubious"?

Oh...I see. "Because not enough study has been done."

Translation: Another grant, pretty please.



You mean another case of academia creating a mess in media hype so that they can pretend to fix it even though they have not provided supporting evidence that there is a mess . That sounds kinda ,Al Gorish. Another factor that has been proved is to many caribou are losing their calves to wolves for the median number required for survival in some provinces and Alaska but that point was completely ignored by the author.
Grace
deleted as couldn't edit.
Grace
RF
QUOTE
If "exact numbers for the creatures are not known", then how is it he can claim to have a "comprehensive census analysis of this species"?


How convenient you left off his qualifier: But for those populations that have been studies, the average decline in numbers is 57 percent. [/i]



RF
QUOTE
And if he "do(es) not know how quickly they can adapt to this changing world", how can he also claim to know "their future is dubious"?


Based on the populations of his studies. Are you saying every study out there is based on every single subject, or oftentimes based on random testing/audits? You want him to travel the globe and study every single goddamn head of reindeer and caribou?
iowanic
How precise they can get with such counts can raise questions. If you count(estimate), say 5000 hamsters in a area one year, Then estimate 4900 the next year; do you declare the species is in trouble?

On a estimate alone, I have to think not; at least not on such a slight numbers decline.

You'd be wise check other factors; seek the big picture.

Grace
QUOTE (iowanic @ Jun 13 2009, 06:21 PM) *
How precise they can get with such counts can raise questions. If you count(estimate), say 5000 hamsters in a area one year, Then estimate 4900 the next year; do you declare the species is in trouble?

On a estimate alone, I have to think not; at least not on such a slight numbers decline.

You'd be wise check other factors; seek the big picture.



If the estimate was 2500 the next year, yes, then the species would be in trouble. But down 100 is not a 57% decline in their numbers. Why are you people always nit picking. The study was published. They weren't fanning their balls while writing this journal. Besides, the reasons for the decline is not rocket science and nothing new.
iowanic
As I said in my first post, Grace, it certainly sounds grim....but I don't think it's a bad idea to examine what's happening from all angels.

I wonder:

Do the native peoples who regularly utalize reindeer concur with the study results? Do they reach the same conclusions as to the reasons why?

Is the population decline steady, or a series of drop then climb, then drop; over and over? If so; this might suggest there is a larger natural cycle of reindeer numbers we were'nt perviously aware of.

Is the decline happening in all areas; or just some? Have ALL herds declined or just some? If so; what's causing the differences?



Grace
Iowa
QUOTE
As I said in my first post, Grace, it certainly sounds grim....but I don't think it's a bad idea to examine what's happening from all angels.


Please don't bring religion into it. icon_razz.gif
iowanic
icon_wall.gif
RF
QUOTE
How convenient you left off his qualifier: But for those populations that have been studies, the average decline in numbers is 57 percent. [/i]


I didn't leave it out because it was inconvenient. I left it out because it was meaningless.

Look here...last year a cat population I was studying experienced a population decline of 33.3%. Can I claim a "comprehensive census analysis"?
RF
QUOTE
RF
QUOTE
And if he "do(es) not know how quickly they can adapt to this changing world", how can he also claim to know "their future is dubious"?


Based on the populations of his studies. Are you saying every study out there is based on every single subject, or oftentimes based on random testing/audits? You want him to travel the globe and study every single goddamn head of reindeer and caribou?


Well....if he would do so, he would certainly have a point when he claimed to have a comprehensive census analysis. Think about that term a little anyway. It perhaps doesn't mean what it appears to mean at first blush. Hint: "Analysis" is the key word.
supertwist
Hmm. This reads a lot like the hype surrounding a "study" released several years ago by another U of C Phd. Something about how much of Alberta was about to run out of potable water because the glacier supplying the Bow River was disappearing. I think his prediction was that by 2010 or so, the Bow River would be dry due to us evil humans and the global warming we've caused. Oddly enough, the years he studied the glacier happened to coincide with the worst prairie drought years since the 1930's. In the last few years the glacier is even larger than when said professor started his study. There's egg on his face, eh?
Grace
So you all are skeptical. Why? You believe it's all smoke and mirrors? Why? Is it so hard to believe caribou numbers are down and the species is in peril? Why?


Woodland caribou became extirpated from (no longer exist in) Prince Edward Island before 1873 and from New Brunswick and Nova Scotia by the 1920s. Today only a small, relic herd on the Gaspé Peninsula remains of the maritime woodland caribou population south and east of the St. Lawrence River. This Atlantic-Gaspésie population has been assessed as endangered by COSEWIC and is listed under the federal Species at Risk Act (SARA). A species is considered endangered when it is facing imminent disappearance from Canada or extinction.

The widespread Boreal population of woodland caribou, which occurs in the Northwest Territories, British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, and Newfoundland and Labrador, has been assessed as threatened by COSEWIC and is listed under SARA. The Southern Mountain population of woodland caribou, which occurs in British Columbia and Alberta, has also been assessed and listed as threatened. A threatened species is one that is likely to become endangered if nothing is done to reverse the factors limiting its survival in Canada.

COSEWIC has assessed the Northern Mountain population of woodland caribou, which occurs in the Yukon Territory, the Northwest Territories, and British Columbia, as being of special concern. It is also listed under SARA. A species of special concern is one that may become threatened or endangered because of a combination of biological characteristics and identified threats.

The Peary caribou has been assessed as endangered by COSEWIC. Consultations are underway to determine if Peary caribou should be listed under SARA. Numbers have declined by about 72 percent in the last 60 years, mostly because of severe icing episodes due to changing weather conditions, where ice has covered vegetation and led to caribou starvation.

One population of barren-ground caribou, the Dolphin and Union population in Nunavut, has also been assessed as a species of special concern by COSEWIC, and consultations are taking place to determine whether it should be listed under SARA. These caribou migrate between the mainland and Victoria Island; climate change and increased shipping may make this ice crossing more dangerous.

Recovery measures

There are national recovery teams, draft recovery plans, and coordinated recovery actions underway for the Peary caribou and the four populations of woodland caribou that are at risk: Atlantic-Gaspésie, Boreal, Southern Mountain, and Northern Mountain. Since the range of the Boreal population is so extensive, there are also regional recovery teams in place in each of the eight provinces and territories that have responsibility for “boreal caribou.”

Caribou are susceptible to and recover slowly from population declines because of their low rate of reproduction. The main factors leading to caribou declines are habitat loss, degradation, and fragmentation, as well as predation. Loss of caribou habitat, which is permanent, occurs when forest is cleared for agriculture, for example. Habitat degradation means a reduction in the amount or quality of caribou habitat, as happens following such events as wildfires or timber harvesting, or through human disturbance. Habitat fragmentation is the breaking up of habitat areas by roads, timber harvest cut-blocks, pipelines, oil and gas well sites, geophysical exploration lines, and other developments.

Caribou in the boreal forest require large tracts of relatively undisturbed, older forest habitat in order to spread out so they are harder for predators and hunters to find, and to avoid the linear corridors that predators and hunters use to gain easier access to their prey. Older forests tend to be richer than younger forests in the lichens caribou depend on. They are also less favoured by moose and deer, which as prey species of the wolf, attract this primary predator of caribou.

A wolf eats a variety of prey but requires food equivalent to 11 to 14 caribou a year. Some wolf packs will follow migrating herds of caribou from summer to winter range and back. Other predators of caribou include grizzly and black bears, cougars, wolverines, lynx, coyotes, and golden eagles.

Partly as a result of habitat changes caused by humans, white-tailed deer have expanded into caribou areas from Manitoba to Quebec, transmitting meningeal brain worm, which is fatal to caribou, although it does not harm the deer. Insects such as warble flies, mosquitoes, and black flies also transmit disease to caribou, and internal parasites affect their health and condition.

Recently there has also been a lot of concern about the potential impact of climate change on caribou, especially in the north. Deeper snow, faster spring melt, warmer summers, freezing rain, and the high annual variability of all these factors will have an impact on the ability of the species to thrive in its environment.

Cultural and economic importance of caribou

Humans have a long association with caribou. Archaeological work in the Yukon Territory suggests humans have been hunting caribou for more than 13 000 years. Many Aboriginal peoples and Inuit based their culture on the caribou, and could not have survived in the north without them. Some tribes were nomadic, following the herds year-round; others lived on caribou for part of the year. Caribou provided food, clothing, and shelter: bones were made into needles and utensils, antlers into tools, and the sinew into thread; the fat provided fuel and light; the skin was made into light, warm clothing and tent material; and the flesh fed people and dogs. Wisely used, caribou will continue to be an important social and economic resource in the North.

Wildlife tourism is important in many parts of Canada occupied by caribou. Recreational hunting of forest-dwelling woodland caribou is of economic importance in the Yukon Territory, northern British Columbia, and Newfoundland and Labrador. In the north, vast herds of migrating caribou present a wildlife spectacle unequalled on this continent and, as an attraction to naturalists, photographers, and licensed hunters, could contribute to a tourist industry.

http://www.hww.ca/hww2.asp?id=85
Grace
Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society – Northwest Territories
Press Release
9 April, 2009

Low Chance of Survival for Two NWT Boreal Woodland Caribou Populations

Yellowknife ‐ A landmark scientific review conducted under Canada’s Species at Risk Act indicates that the Boreal woodland caribou in two study areas of the NWT may not survive unless immediate action is taken to protect and improve their habitat.
The authors of the Environment Canada study titled “Scientific Review for the identification of Critical Habitat for Woodland Caribou” assessed the status of habitat and current chances of survival for nearly 60 Boreal woodland caribou populations across Canada.
In the Dehcho North and Southwest and South Slave and Southeast Dehcho study areas, Boreal woodland caribou populations are declining. The review’s authors concluded for each of these areas that:
• there is a 40 percent chance of survival if nothing is done to protect them;
• protection of their entire current ranges, to ensure no further habitat loss occurs, is required for their survival; and
• immediate action is needed to improve their remaining habitat.
The report also provides information about other Canadian Boreal caribou populations, including the Bistcho and Steen River populations, which range in both Alberta and the NWT. Each of these populations number about 300: the Bistcho has only a 20 percent chance of survival and the Steen River has a 40 percent chance of survival if no management action is taken.
The NWT Chapter of the Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society (CPAWS) congratulates the Federal Environment Minister for releasing this important report and encourages the Minister to incorporate the findings into an evolving national Recovery Strategy for the Boreal woodland caribou as soon as possible. “Our mission is to protect the land, water and wildlife in the NWT for current and future generations by working with NWT residents, governments, communities, and organizations,” said Lani Cooke,Executive Director, “and we believe that now is the time to work together to save the Boreal woodland caribou populations at risk. “

Cooke noted that the Government of the NWT has drafted an Action Plan for Boreal Woodland Caribou Conservation that complements the federal Recovery Strategy, and that
Aboriginal people are continuing to use their traditional knowledge and understanding
to ensure that caribou will survive for future generations. “All Northerners must
encourage our governments to protect habitats required by these threatened woodland
caribou populations. If we lose our caribou we lose the heart and soul of the North, as well as an essential food source for many Northerners,” Cooke concluded.

http://caribouandyou.ca/files/release-nwt.pdf
Grace
A little more detail re: geographic areas where the herds were studied.

Reindeer and caribou numbers are plummeting around the world.

The first global review of their status has found that populations are declining almost everywhere they live, from Alaska and Canada, to Greenland, Scandinavia and Russia. The iconic deer is vital to indigenous peoples around the circumpolar north. Yet it is increasingly difficult for the deer to survive in a world warmed by climate change and altered by industrial development, say scientists.

Reindeer and caribou belong to the same species, Rangifer tarandus. Caribou live in Canada, Alaska and Greenland; while reindeer live in Russia, Norway, Sweden and Finland.

Worldwide, seven sub-species are recognised. Each are genetically, morphologically and behaviourally a little different, though capable of interbreeding with one another.

These differences between sub-species dictate how each is affected by human impacts.

For example, it has been known for a while that populations of woodland caribou in Canada have declined as human disturbance has increased, caused by logging, oil and gas exploration, and road building, says Liv Vors of the University of Alberta in Edmonton, Canada.

But then reports started coming in that the numbers of other herds were also falling.

"When we discovered that many herds of reindeer also were declining we decided to compile a comprehensive survey to see if this indeed was a global pattern," says Vors.

Vors and Mark Boyce at the University of Alberta contacted other researchers and scoured the published literature and government databases for all the information they could find about reindeer and caribou numbers. They compiled data on 58 major herds around the Northern Hemisphere.

The scientists were shocked to discover that 34 of the herds were declining, while no data existed for 16 more. Only eight herds were increasing in number. Many herds had been declining for a decade or more.


Migratory caribou are feeling the heat from climate change
"We were surprised at the ubiquity of the decline," says Vors.

"We knew that woodland caribou in North America were in bad shape." There is also some evidence that populations of migratory caribou in the Canadian Arctic have fluctuated in recent history.

But the researchers were surprised at how migratory caribou and reindeer numbers seem to be falling in synchrony across the Northern Hemisphere.

"When we delved into the status of European reindeer herds, we were surprised that so many were declining. We expected them to be in better shape than North America herds because reindeer, namely the semi-domestic herds, are closely managed by humans."

The scale of the problem is shown by a map upon which the researchers plotted their data, which is published in Global Change Biology.


THE SEVEN SUB-SPECIES
R. t. tarandus. Semi-domestic and wild reindeer that live across northern Scandinavia and Russia. Wild reindeer undertake long, seasonal migrations between summer and winter ranges.
R .t. fennicus. Wild forest reindeer that live in the forests of Finland and the Kola Peninsula of Russia.
R. t. platyrhynchos. Svalbard reindeer that live only on the Spitsbergen Archipelago, which belongs to Norway. Svalbard reindeer have light-coloured fur, and shorter legs than other subspecies.
R. t. granti. Grant's caribou found in Alaska and the Yukon. They reside in large groups and undertake long, seasonal migrations.
R. t. groenlandicus. Migratory barren-ground caribou found across the tundra of Canada and Greenland.
R. t. pearyi. Peary caribou, of which perhaps 700 persist on Canadian high Arctic islands.
R. t. caribou. Woodland caribou residing in the boreal forest, mountains and tundra lowlands of Canada.
"Seeing that sea of red was a sobering moment," Vors says.

"If global climate change and industrial development continue at the current pace, caribou and reindeer populations will continue to decline in abundance," says Vors.

"Currently, climate change is most important for Arctic caribou and reindeer, while anthropogenic landscape change is most important for non-migratory woodland caribou."

For example, climate change is affecting migratory caribou in a number of ways.

Warmer summers mean more insect activity, and caribou and reindeer that are harassed by insects are not able to feed as much to put on weight before winter.

Earlier springs mean plants may be past their prime by the time migrating animals reach their calving grounds, while warmer winters include more freezing rain which can form layers of ice over the ground. The caribou and reindeer cannot dig through the ice to feed, and can then starve en masse.

"In time, however, climate change will become more important for woodland caribou, and landscape change will have a greater effect on arctic caribou and reindeer," Vors continues.

"There likely will be more forest fires in woodland caribou habitat, as well as diseases and parasites transmitted to caribou from white-tailed deer, whose range is expanding northward in Canada. More roads are being built in the Arctic, as well as infrastructures like diamond mines, and these sometimes interfere with migration routes."

Unless something is urgently done, all seven sub-species of Rangifer face a bleak future, says Vors.

"The concern is that their habitat and the climate are changing too quickly for them to adapt."


Fewer than 700 Peary caribou remain
The annual treks of migratory caribou form one of the last remaining large-scale ungulate migrations in the northern hemisphere.

Different sub-species also provide a cornerstone to many indigenous cultures around the circumpolar north, from subsistence hunting of caribou by Aboriginal peoples in Canada, Greenland and Alaska to reindeer husbandry by numerous cultures across Scandinavia and Siberia.

"From a Canadian perspective, the caribou is part of our national identity," says Vors. "Canada's caribou migrations have frequently been identified as one of this country's natural wonders, and the species even appears on our 25-cent coin."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/...000/8094036.stm
RF
QUOTE
So you all are skeptical. Why?


The alternative is to unquestioningly believe what you are told.
RF
QUOTE
There likely will be more forest fires in woodland caribou habitat, as well as diseases and parasites transmitted to caribou from white-tailed deer, whose range is expanding northward in Canada.


So I guess if someone is really worried about these scruffy deer, one part of the solution to their problem is to annihilate the whitetails that are invading their territory.
Grace
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 14 2009, 10:03 AM) *
QUOTE
There likely will be more forest fires in woodland caribou habitat, as well as diseases and parasites transmitted to caribou from white-tailed deer, whose range is expanding northward in Canada.


So I guess if someone is really worried about these scruffy deer, one part of the solution to their problem is to annihilate the whitetails that are invading their territory.



And humans are not to blame??
Grace
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 14 2009, 09:58 AM) *
QUOTE
So you all are skeptical. Why?


The alternative is to unquestioningly believe what you are told.



If there was good reason not to believe it, you'd have a point. This isn't the first species who are in peril due to habitat loss, global warming, etc. I suppose you don't buy into that either.
RF
QUOTE (Grace @ Jun 14 2009, 07:12 AM) *
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 14 2009, 10:03 AM) *
QUOTE
There likely will be more forest fires in woodland caribou habitat, as well as diseases and parasites transmitted to caribou from white-tailed deer, whose range is expanding northward in Canada.


So I guess if someone is really worried about these scruffy deer, one part of the solution to their problem is to annihilate the whitetails that are invading their territory.



And humans are not to blame??


Are they? If so, they would be taking responsibility by wiping out those whitetails, eh?

I'm of two minds about that though. While I do hate whitetails and applaud every effort to reduce the number of those vermin, I also have to admit that they are a much more esthetic species than the cow-like, shuffling caribou.
RF
QUOTE (Grace @ Jun 14 2009, 07:14 AM) *
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 14 2009, 09:58 AM) *
QUOTE
So you all are skeptical. Why?


The alternative is to unquestioningly believe what you are told.



If there was good reason not to believe it, you'd have a point. This isn't the first species who are in peril due to habitat loss, global warming, etc. I suppose you don't buy into that either.


When I hear "global warming" or "climate change", I understand that politicians with an agenda are speaking. I pretty much say fuck politicians and their agendas.
Grace
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 14 2009, 10:19 AM) *
QUOTE (Grace @ Jun 14 2009, 07:14 AM) *
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 14 2009, 09:58 AM) *
QUOTE
So you all are skeptical. Why?


The alternative is to unquestioningly believe what you are told.



If there was good reason not to believe it, you'd have a point. This isn't the first species who are in peril due to habitat loss, global warming, etc. I suppose you don't buy into that either.


When I hear "global warming" or "climate change", I understand that politicians with an agenda are speaking. I pretty much say fuck politicians and their agendas.



And when you hear global warming and climate change coming from scientists, environmentalists, biologists, professors or plain old people concerned with it, what do you say?
RF
QUOTE (Grace @ Jun 14 2009, 03:59 PM) *
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 14 2009, 10:19 AM) *
QUOTE (Grace @ Jun 14 2009, 07:14 AM) *
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 14 2009, 09:58 AM) *
QUOTE
So you all are skeptical. Why?


The alternative is to unquestioningly believe what you are told.



If there was good reason not to believe it, you'd have a point. This isn't the first species who are in peril due to habitat loss, global warming, etc. I suppose you don't buy into that either.


When I hear "global warming" or "climate change", I understand that politicians with an agenda are speaking. I pretty much say fuck politicians and their agendas.



And when you hear global warming and climate change coming from scientists, environmentalists, biologists, professors or plain old people concerned with it, what do you say?


Being any of those things doesn't preclude having a political agenda.
DonnieMacLeod
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 14 2009, 05:46 PM) *
QUOTE (Grace @ Jun 14 2009, 03:59 PM) *
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 14 2009, 10:19 AM) *
QUOTE (Grace @ Jun 14 2009, 07:14 AM) *
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 14 2009, 09:58 AM) *
QUOTE
So you all are skeptical. Why?


The alternative is to unquestioningly believe what you are told.



If there was good reason not to believe it, you'd have a point. This isn't the first species who are in peril due to habitat loss, global warming, etc. I suppose you don't buy into that either.


When I hear "global warming" or "climate change", I understand that politicians with an agenda are speaking. I pretty much say fuck politicians and their agendas.



And when you hear global warming and climate change coming from scientists, environmentalists, biologists, professors or plain old people concerned with it, what do you say?


Being any of those things doesn't preclude having a political agenda.




Especially if their political agenda is set up to bring them vast sums of money by selling "inconvenient truths" or the need for more research so they can head up teams of researchers for nice bankroll accounts.
Grace
Well my husband doesn't buy into global warming either. But after I saw polar bears doing the backstroke, I do now.

RF
QUOTE (Grace @ Jun 15 2009, 07:28 AM) *
Well my husband doesn't buy into global warming either. But after I saw polar bears doing the backstroke, I do now.


I think polar bears have gone swimming for millions of years, Grace.

Edit: I overstated the case. The polar bear has been a distinct sub-species perhaps only 200,000 years.
DonnieMacLeod
QUOTE (Grace @ Jun 15 2009, 10:28 AM) *
Well my husband doesn't buy into global warming either. But after I saw polar bears doing the backstroke, I do now.



Polar bears have been known as one of the best swimming animals in the North for years Grace. They are as much at home in the water as on land.
Grace
Aren't the polar bears drowning?
RF
QUOTE (Grace @ Jun 15 2009, 09:25 AM) *
Aren't the polar bears drowning?


All of them? If they're that inept, I submit they deserve what they get. Darwin will have his way you know.
Grace
I would google it but am afraid to see what would follow. Pictures of baby bears foundering, momma bears wailing nearby on a floe the size of an ice cube.
DonnieMacLeod
QUOTE (Grace @ Jun 15 2009, 12:25 PM) *
Aren't the polar bears drowning?



That would be an "inconvenient lie" by some folks,that isn't supported by the truth.
Grace
QUOTE (DonnieMacLeod @ Jun 15 2009, 01:56 PM) *
QUOTE (Grace @ Jun 15 2009, 12:25 PM) *
Aren't the polar bears drowning?



That would be an "inconvenient lie" by some folks,that isn't supported by the truth.




That would be good news if it were true. Can you prove it?
DonnieMacLeod
The question was asked of the Inuit who actually live with Polar Bears and aren't looking for the eco- tourism dollars.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-50...believe-it.html
Grace
QUOTE (DonnieMacLeod @ Jun 15 2009, 02:00 PM) *
The question was asked of the Inuit who actually live with Polar Bears and aren't looking for the eco- tourism dollars.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-50...believe-it.html



But that was in 2007. A lot can warm up in 2 years. I'm going to have to do my own research. Thanks anyway.
RF
Good thing we weren't around when the dinosaurs took their leave. Some of us would have been morose as hell.

Not me. Like I told my grandson a few days ago, I'm GLAD there aren't any dinosaurs around anymore. He agreed.
Grace
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 15 2009, 02:43 PM) *
Good thing we weren't around when the dinosaurs took their leave. Some of us would have been morose as hell.

Not me. Like I told my grandson a few days ago, I'm GLAD there aren't any dinosaurs around anymore. He agreed.


You funny. Your grandkid is lucky to have you and your stories, lessons & wits.

RF
QUOTE (Grace @ Jun 15 2009, 11:45 AM) *
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 15 2009, 02:43 PM) *
Good thing we weren't around when the dinosaurs took their leave. Some of us would have been morose as hell.

Not me. Like I told my grandson a few days ago, I'm GLAD there aren't any dinosaurs around anymore. He agreed.


You funny. Your grandkid is lucky to have you and your stories, lessons & wits.


You aren't afraid he'll grow up to be a serial cat killer? He was hell on ants and such for awhile. Then one day he decided to extend his bloodthirsty ways to bees. I told him it was a bad idea. The very next bee had him agreeing with me about that too.
Grace
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 15 2009, 02:50 PM) *
QUOTE (Grace @ Jun 15 2009, 11:45 AM) *
QUOTE (RF @ Jun 15 2009, 02:43 PM) *
Good thing we weren't around when the dinosaurs took their leave. Some of us would have been morose as hell.

Not me. Like I told my grandson a few days ago, I'm GLAD there aren't any dinosaurs around anymore. He agreed.


You funny. Your grandkid is lucky to have you and your stories, lessons & wits.


You aren't afraid he'll grow up to be a serial cat killer? He was hell on ants and such for awhile. Then one day he decided to extend his bloodthirsty ways to bees. I told him it was a bad idea. The very next bee had him agreeing with me about that too.



LOL. Well, I'm glad he wasn't allergic to bees. In any case, I'll trust you to teach him about the birds too.
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